Sunday, 22 February 2009

15 reasons why Catalonia can no longer form part of Spain

  1. Because Spain prevents the Catalans from deciding our political future.
  2. Because official Spain is allergic to the Catalan language and culture.
  3. Because the 10% of Catalonia’s GDP that is creamed off by Spain devastates our economy.
  4. Because repressive sentences passed by Franco are still in force.
  5. Because Catalonia is prevented from participating in international sport.
  6. Because Spain systematically ignores U.N. calls against impunity for the Franco regime
  7. Because the mass graves of Franco’s victims are still uninvestigated.
  8. Because Spanish courts systematically overrule Catalan laws.
  9. Because many Spanish streets are still named after Nazis and Fascists.
  10. Because Catalans are a constant target of prejudice and abuse.
  11. Because Spain never apologized for executing our President in 1940.
  12. Because Catalonia wants to contribute to the future of Europe.
  13. Because Catalonia wants to share its language with all Europeans.
  14. Because Catalonia needs a constituency for its own MEPs.
  15. Because Catalonia wants France and Spain as amiable neighbours on friendly terms.
No European can fail to understand this


Kropotkin said...

Ha, ha, ha,.... You have no idea... Ha, ha, ha,... Quite unbelievable... Ha, ha, ha,...

YuriBCN said...

Hi Kropotkin,
I obviously have no idea... of what you are about, as you do not make your argument.
Furthermore, your URL ( leads nowhere, so I cannot even read your opinions that might clarify your stance on the issue.
I take it from your nickname that you identify with the anarchist Piotr Kropotkin. I am therefore surprised that you are contrary to the principle that a society such as ours should fight against a state, Spain, which many, if not most Catalans consider repressive.
Am I, and anyone who might read your comment here, to simply accept your comment point blank that the 15 reasons are "unbelievable"? I should hope not.

Kropotkin said...

George said "Because Spain prevents the Catalans from deciding our political future"

December 6, 1978: 90,46% of the voters in Catalonia said Yes to the Spanish Constitution.

Preliminary Title (Spanish Constitution)

"Section 2. The Constitution is based on the indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation, the common and indivisible homeland of all Spaniards;"

Kropotkin said...

George said "Because many Spanish streets are still named after Nazis and Fascists."

He is right here. There is a street in Barcelona named after the famous
basc nazi Sabino Arana

The Catalan nazionalists decided he deserved it...

Some of his most famous phrases,

"La fisonomía del bizkaino es inteligente y noble; la del español, inexpresiva y adusta."

"El bizkaino es inteligente y hábil para toda clase de trabajos; el español es corto de inteligencia y carece de maña para los trabajos más sencillos."

"el noventa y cinco por ciento de los crímenes que se perpetran en Bizkaya se deben a mano española, y de cuatro de los cinco restantes son autores bizkainos españolizados."

"Les aterra el oír que a los maestros maketos se les debe despachar de los pueblos a pedradas. ¡Ah, la gente amiga de la paz...! Es la más digna del odio de los patriotas."

Kropotkin said...

George said "Because Catalans are a constant target of prejudice and abuse."

Any evidence? Examples? Arguments?

Do we have to accept this comment point blank? I should hope not.

Kropotkin said...

George said "Because Spanish courts systematically overrule Catalan laws."

Examples? Facts? When? Where? How? Why? Who?

Kropotkin said...

George said "Because repressive sentences passed by Franco are still in force."


Kropotkin said...

George said "Because official Spain is allergic to the Catalan language and culture."

Any medical evidence?

YuriBCN said...

Ah! I see. That's it, is it? The "indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation" argument, i.e. Spanish nationalism.
Firstly, there was no other alternative on offer. It was a "take it or leave it" option, backed by the army that had risen against a democratically elected government: a banana-state situation.
Secondly, why is it that, over 30 years on, with a radically changed society within an extremely changed world, with totally different economic and social environments, the Spanish Constitution cannot be amended, as are other Constitutions? Why is it that the Spanish state is unable to accept referendums on possible amendments, i.e. a democratic process on how our nation is to be governed? Should our form of government be set in stone, like the Biblical Ten Commandments, never to be altered and adapted to the progress made by our society?
This inability of Spain to adapt to change is precisely what I discuss in "How much is enough?"

Kropotkin said...

George said "Because Spain never apologized for executing our President in 1940."

Rome never apologized for invading Germany, France, Spain (including Catalonia),...

Rome never apologized for killing Spartacus...

Sweden never apologized for invading England...

Kropotkin said...

Yuri said "Firstly, there was no other alternative on offer."

Yes, there were thre other alternatives. First not voting. Second voting "No". Third voting blank.

Well, I see that you don´t know what are you talking about. Frankly, you should take a Critical Thinking course as soon as possible... Ha, ha, ha,...

You Catalan nazionalists are simply pathetic...

Anonymous said...

"Because Catalonia wants to share its language with all Europeans...." Hahahahaha, and you think all Europeans are interested in your language? What kind of arguments are these??
I could say: I want my own state in Europe because I want to share my great ideas with everybody. Would you consider me a serious person? Come on, start using your brains and work on something POSITIVE. Unite, do not separate. Love your neighbours, do not hate them. And get a smile on your face, enjoy life!

Candide said...

"official Spain is allergic to the Catalan language"

Nice try.

There are certainly some stupid individuals who still think that Catalan is a dialect of Spanish... Who cares. You speak of "official Spain". Let's have a look at "official Spain".

Catalan is a co-offical language of Catalonia, which, for the sake of giving Spanish "nationalities" great relevancy, has been established as autonomous community, based on the Spanish constitution.

Catalan is even used on the website of the Spanish ministry of defence.

Catalan is used in the Spanish senate.

That much to official Spain.

It would be easy to debunk all the other "arguments" you cite in this post in a similar way. But I won't. Too tedious. Wish you luck to make a living out of your newly found religion. You could even become the next Matthew Tree!

It pays well.

YuriBCN said...

Hello Candide,

Thanks for popping by and commenting.

Just to get the lie of the land, so as to say, I popped over to yours, and what was the first line I read? "After my regular and well-enjoyed Barcelona-bashing..." Good start, though I: slight sign of prejudice there, perhaps?

Let me comment, if I may, on your statement on an issue I consider rather symptomatic and which you mention very much in passing: the use of Catalan in the Senate. This really does indicate one of the problems Spain has with non-Spanish languages.

You say "Catalan is used in the Spanish senate". This is true, Catalan may be used there, but only under very limited conditions, by certain people and at certain times (once a year, for example). The language of a good proportion of Spanish citizens is simply not considered equal to Castillian (i.e. Spanish: "the real thing")

Hopefully for non-Spanish speakers, there is a proposed Senate law reform (in Spanish, of course) on the use of Spain's official languages in the Senate: Will it go through? That is for the Spanish-speaking majority to decide on, whether they will respect and consent to equality of language rights of all Spain's citizens.

I shall end by quoting your own words: It would be easy to debunk all the other "arguments" you cite in your comment in a similar way. But I won't. Too tedious."

Candide said...

Oh pretty puhleeze!

You'll also find me speaking about my own laziness and lack of intelligence.I'm sure that offers you scores of possibilities for cheap criticism.

You must be far from knowing anything about the concept of irony. And that makes me think it would be futile to try and explain it.

As to your well employed point about the Senate, well, Spain's not ideal. It must improve.

Same goes for the ministry of defence I myself mentioned. Catalan language is present, but not as thoroughly as I'd wish.

However, fact is Spain is not made up of a bunch of "catalanophobes". There is no black and white, and things that have to be improved can be improved.

And if you want to go back to my web and come up with some good arguments about/against what I say there, be my guest. Comments are not moderated.

Don't take the lazy way out.

Candide said...

Your lack of a response seems to me like a lack of arguments, something I have regularly observed when discussing with a Catalan nationalist.

Why should you be different, George.

YuriBCN said...

Perhaps because I have 'another life'? Relax: when I have time...

Candide said...

We're all human. Have a good weekend.

Candide said...

Whenever during the last month or so I was listening to Christina Aguilera a comment kept coming to my mind which I had read recently: "What a voice! Wasted on pop." So true.

I have to pay due credit to you as the author of these words.

Anonymous said...

I was surfing the web for a translation I am doing and came across your blog. Reading this article made me honestly sad. You might think you are fighting for your own cause, but the truth is you've probably been brainwashed by catalonian politicians, (like Montilla, who is, ejem, from Andalucía)to whom nationalism is just a means to enrich themselves, it's all about economy once again. The truth is, yes, Catalonia is different to other parts of Spain, but the same way every province in this country has its own regionalisms and idiosyncrasy. I think this is what makes my country beautiful, why I never get tired of travelling through Spain. I think it makes us a rich and tolerant nation. I am from Madrid and I have family roots in Cataluña, I obviously am not a catalonophobe (though I do not support nationalism, but Catalonian identity and nationalism are not synonyms anyway). I have lived in Alicante for the first two decades of my life and experienced first hand what it means to live in a bilingual community. And it's never been a problem. It makes me sad to see that even foreigners, such as yourself, have been sucked into this nonesense. It gives me little hope for our future.

YuriBCN said...

Hi Anonymous,

Thanks for popping by and commenting.

Before I reply on other points, why would you assume I am a "foreigner" and why would I have been "brainwashed"?

Call me Jordi said...

Your "catalonian president", Lluis Companys, was a traitor, who rebelled against legitimate governement of the spanish republic in 1934.

He proclamed a seditious "catalonian state" in the middle of a criminal, massive revolutionary riot unleashed by leftist politicians (traitors, as well) who considered that the republican governements were property of marxists, revolucionary anarquists and other "democratic people".

As a result,thousand of people were dead and a horrible violence came from everywhere, from the worker´s militias´s social resentment and then from the army´s response.

It was a "little civil war" that destroyed part of Asturias, and it closed for ever the possibilities for a pacific spanish republic.

Later, when civil war explouded, when Companys was back in the position of "president of the autonomous region of catalonia", as it was defined in republican constitution, (autonomous thanks to spanish republican state) Companys surrounded to anarquist militias making possible the "red terror" that killed thousands of people, including catalonian people, most of them good spaniards and honest people.

It´s a pity that was who Gestapo brought him back, but he was well shot, and for the crimes he commited, he deserved to be shot thousands times.

YuriBCN said...

Hi "Call me Jordi",

Thank you for your point of view on the reasons for the assassination of President Lluís Companys by a military court.

Might I remind you that this court was established by the illegitimate government set up after the fascist military uprising that started the Spanish Civil War (which you say "exploded", implying no one was responsible for declaring it?) and overthrew the democratically elected government you say you defend.

You should also keep in mind that Mr. Companys had already been tried and sentenced and had undergone prison sentence. Democratic legal procedure implies a principle, 'non bis in idem' or 'double jeopardy', which forbids that a defendant be tried again for the same or similar charges following legitimate conviction (or acquittal).

From your comments, I assume you approve of the trial he underwent, and that you interpret it as "due process", and likewise defend the death sentence?

I'm afraid I cannot agree, but then that's just part of free speech in democracy, isn't it?